RPE vs EPDM?

[brokensword]

Headed out of town for the weekend. Thanks for the info again. My head is in two different spots. One on the pump area and the other on the bog lol.

Hopefully post some more pictures / questions as I physically locate stuff with big.
Purchased the pump and made my own graphic based off all our text to make sure I’m visualizing right.

Hard to see but there is a tier just under the water line where I drew the flex pvc lines, hose to be concealed by rocks and junk.

50’ of the flex will get everything done in the bog and ~20 left.



It’s hard to see in the picture and they collapsed a bit, but there is a tier which surrounds the pump. I just started to form this out at end of season and need to reinforce it more as things warm up.
It’ll be about a 4” tier horizontally around. Also considering snapping paver blocks to 8” x 4” or so rectangles to stand vertically to further reinforce the walls, then layment and liner over.
I have to dig the hole about a foot deeper still.
The plan I have is for a hole, something to raise the pump off bottom, pump.
Resting on the tier horizontally, ~6 inches under water, is a piece of slate, flag, etc that I’ll form to a trapezial shape. It’ll rest on the tier to conceal the hole/pump beneath. It’s likely big enough to conceal most of the pvc adapter coming out also.

Imagine the white being roughly where the walls/tiers will be, the red is the piece of slate/flag/whatever laying across, under the water.

You're getting pretty good at the pic/design stuff, Dux; much easier to both see and understand.

[edit] just looking over your pic, you know you could probably cut down the width of those shelves and get more water volume...could make them as wide as an 8" rock or so. Too, be sure you can cover your liner at the bank/pond junction. You should, it looks like enough room; I'm only doubting how deep that first shelf is. You might have to stack smaller on larger to bring it up out of the water and cover where it hits land. Then add some heading outward to keep from having a 'string of pearls' look, which nature doesn't do.


I'd say you have the pond side plan in place! And you don't necessarily have to have the pump in a hole, probably better if you didn't, and I'd just lift it off the bottom 12" or so like attached to a milk crate. You sorta want the pump to be fed easily; it'll help with stuff floating in the water column and be high enough not to suck up larger debris which you don't want in the bog anyhow. So maybe you can cut some of the work. If you're worried re seeing the pump, after a season, it should have algae on it (the piping too) and you'll not really notice it. If you want to shield from view, you can also have floaters that hang over where your pump is; your eyes will thank you!

Keep it comin'! Gonna see the forum's FIRST real pond renovation! That of course demands more pics from you, dontcha know!! heh heh (am I adding to your 'to-do' list enough???)

[Duxwig]

I have a number of pics queued just limited time to draw and plan lol.

[Duxwig]

Have a spare moment. Regarding retain wall - you would remove two layers of the wall? And make it shorter? It brings it down to 16” high if I recall.

I guess I’m still not understanding why I would shorten the wall?

[Duxwig]

Re stacking lumber in rows, nailing to self.

Ground contact anything would likely be fine right?
Given the space is only 14” wide, needs to fit the bog box, need bulks heads on the weir, spacing, not sure the stack Timbers would be beneficial as it cuts down the width?

Was aiming to use ground contact plywood with additional support brackets, then liner inside since it reduces the space loss quite a bit.

Pairing w the wall I was more inclined to raise the right side two blocks to make it even, drop the bog to say 18” deep, by 4’x14”. I would end up taking out the drainage system under the soil as maybe less hydrostatic pressure to bust the wall later if it’s all contained in the wood bog w liner.

[brokensword]

Re stacking lumber in rows, nailing to self.

Ground contact anything would likely be fine right?
Given the space is only 14” wide, needs to fit the bog box, need bulks heads on the weir, spacing, not sure the stack Timbers would be beneficial as it cuts down the width?

Was aiming to use ground contact plywood with additional support brackets, then liner inside since it reduces the space loss quite a bit.

Pairing w the wall I was more inclined to raise the right side two blocks to make it even, drop the bog to say 18” deep, by 4’x14”. I would end up taking out the drainage system under the soil as maybe less hydrostatic pressure to bust the wall later if it’s all contained in the wood bog w liner.

Ground contact is preferred; will last longer. With the liner over, it shouldn't get much moisture as you're on a hill, but no doubt twill have some dampness just through wicking and osmosis type processes from the stone wall.

You might check out some rubbermaid containers; I've seen them used as actual ponds and you could re-purose for your bog. Might get two if long enough and connect using more bulkhead fittings. Sort of like having two manifolds, one in each with bulkhead fittings between as pass-throughs and connections. Not hard but have to design for this if that's the plan. Otherwise, I can see 36" rubbermaid containers in that size, I think.

The plywood might indeed work; look at marine rated stuff they use for boating needs. If you go this route, you might get some bowing when you put in your gravel and the water might also push. It's narrow though, so maybe not. 14" isn't that bad for lateral push. I think you might just connect a brace of contact 2x4 on the bottom and especially the top, as that's where you'd get the most bowing. Too, could have two braces, 1/3 the way from each side on the top. Would camo with rocks, driftwood, plants, etc.

I'd definite'y go larger bog if you can; lot more benefit. I know it means more work but you'll be a lot better off. Moving dirt in/out is easy compared to a lot of other pond issues. So yeah, 14" x 4' sounds much better, and esp deeper. You'd need 12" for the bog and 6" for the raised sides and back anyway.

[solaria5505]

i'm not sure what liner I have as it's more like a hard plastic. Probably not a liner thinking about it. A precast pond kind of thing. I know it was easy to put in but the sides that show need to be fixed i guess. Do you have any ideas how to do that?

[darkmuse]

i'm not sure what liner I have as it's more like a hard plastic. Probably not a liner thinking about it. A precast pond kind of thing. I know it was easy to put in but the sides that show need to be fixed i guess. Do you have any ideas how to do that?

You have preformed pond if it's hard plastic. Keeping that kind of pond level and in the ground can be a challenge. If your sides are exposed, the sun will get at it so it's better if you cover it with rocks or plants.

[solaria5505]

i'm not sure what liner I have as it's more like a hard plastic. Probably not a liner thinking about it. A precast pond kind of thing. I know it was easy to put in but the sides that show need to be fixed i guess. Do you have any ideas how to do that?

You have preformed pond if it's hard plastic. Keeping that kind of pond level and in the ground can be a challenge. If your sides are exposed, the sun will get at it so it's better if you cover it with rocks or plants.

yes, I think I do have a performed. Thank you for the suggestions. Do you have any pictures of how to do that?

[darkmuse]

i'm not sure what liner I have as it's more like a hard plastic. Probably not a liner thinking about it. A precast pond kind of thing. I know it was easy to put in but the sides that show need to be fixed i guess. Do you have any ideas how to do that?

You have preformed pond if it's hard plastic. Keeping that kind of pond level and in the ground can be a challenge. If your sides are exposed, the sun will get at it so it's better if you cover it with rocks or plants.

yes, I think I do have a performed. Thank you for the suggestions. Do you have any pictures of how to do that?

The best way(s) are to use one of the techniques I posted here
https://www.swordofshakespeare.com/viewtopic.php?t=66
but here's some pictures and explanations (not my pond or pics, btw).

In the first pic you'll see the pond is a preform, like you have. Preforms are not as subject to degradation as liners (liners are thinner) but still should be covered for protection as well as 'looks', imo.

external-content.duckduckgo.jpg (254.32 KiB) Viewed 567 times

This next shows a liner that is exposed at the top, above the water line. It is best to bring the water halfway up the perimeter rock border and those designs I pointed to will do that for you.

pond-kidney-shape.jpg (61.89 KiB) Viewed 567 times

and @j.w has some nice pics showing how she did it!

Below, some finished, liner covered pond edges. Just get creative if you don't have the built in shelf, but that's what I would recommend.

pond-rocks-2.jpg (63.37 KiB) Viewed 567 times

P1140556.jpg (335.45 KiB) Viewed 567 times

2771cf638aea3294f7f27e62225e6b56.jpg (229.58 KiB) Viewed 567 times

[j.w]

@darkmuse very well said and shown w/the photo's and yes I did the little shelf thing down several inches and put rocks on it in the water and then a layer of rocks above those around the the pond edge.
Then I stuck plants in between rocks w/their roots in the water and some also planted back beyond the dirt berm and they trail all around and into the pond too.

[brokensword]

@darkmuse very well said and shown w/the photo's and yes I did the little shelf thing down several inches and put rocks on it in the water and then a layer of rocks above those around the the pond edge.
Then I stuck plants in between rocks w/their roots in the water and some also planted back beyond the dirt berm and they trail all around and into the pond too.

yeppers; this is the way to do it; very nice photos, @j.w , better than most I'd find if I googled!

You won't go wrong imitating what the Queen has done!

[darkmuse]

@darkmuse very well said and shown w/the photo's and yes I did the little shelf thing down several inches and put rocks on it in the water and then a layer of rocks above those around the the pond edge.
Then I stuck plants in between rocks w/their roots in the water and some also planted back beyond the dirt berm and they trail all around and into the pond too.

that's a very nice natural looking border, for sure!